So if the government believes that torture is wrong AND
If they believe that waterboarding isn't torture WHY
Would they destroy tapes of CIA agents waterboarding terror supects?
It apparently wasn't to safeguard the identity of CIA agents since one of them has come forward publicly to say how he believes that waterboarding is torture?
From the Nation:
By November 2005, three different federal judges had issued ironclad preservation-of-evidence orders in cases involving terror suspects and Guantánamo detainees. That was when the CIA elected to destroy tapes of the interrogations and waterboarding of two suspected Al Qaeda members. To the inherent criminality of torture, add contempt of court.
The revelation of those CIA videotapes and their destruction has inspired a leakfest in Washington and Langley, with fingers pointing everywhere and nowhere. "There are other people at the agency who know about this far better than I," says CIA director Michael Hayden. Meanwhile, "other people at the agency" keep shifting blame between the legal office and the Directorate of Operations. The White House and Justice Department claim they advised the CIA to keep the tapes. But given George W. Bush's passion for extralegal imprisonment and "extreme interrogation," the agency had every reason to see mixed signals from Pennsylvania Avenue. Democratic Representative Jane Harman, informed of waterboarding and other outlaw interrogation practices in 2003, says she filed a classified letter of protest but "was not free to disclose anything." But what secrecy oath requires public servants--not only Republicans but Harman, Nancy Pelosi, Bob Graham and Jay Rockefeller--to keep silent about systematic violations of US and international law?
As Emily Bazelon and Dahlia Lithwick write in a pertinent post on Slate, the destroyed videotapes would have had a profound impact on the Moussaoui and Padilla trials, the Guantánamo detainee lawsuits and the September 11 commission report. If that is true, then destruction of the tapes amounts to subversion of vital American institutions and is no sideshow but a central episode in the history of post-9/11 policy. Senator Joe Biden got it right: the CIA tapes' destruction, and the violations of anti-torture statutes they recorded, require a special prosecutor. Only such an independent investigation will be free of the Bush Justice Department's long entanglement with interrogation and torture policy, and the broader culture of complicity that ensnares everyone from anonymous CIA operatives to Congressional leaders of both parties.
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23 comments:
The fact that even the highest ranking officials in our goverment are pointing fingers at eachother is a bad sign. If the CIA had not gotten caught at Guantánamo Bay they would still be doing it and would of not seen it nessacery to fill us in on this tid-bit of information. In my opinion if waterboarding is not torture then why would they need to destroy the tapes; unless, there was somthing else on the tapes that was worse than waterboarding or some other activity that really could of gotten the agents in trouble. I think there is even more that we have not been informed of. Maybe not even the rest of the goverment knows. What else have they not told us?
The destruction of the tapes was just a plan-B in the case that waterboarding was determinded to be toture (not that I understand how it couldn't be, I think making someone gag untill they feel they are on the brink of death is pretty darn close to toture, don't you?)But,if waterboarding isn't torture, then there's no problem, but there's still a chance that waterboarding could be considered toture, so if the evidence is destroyed there's doesnt even have to be ANY worry over the legality of the waterboarding because if it's not on paper (or in this case tape) it didn't happen. Isnt out government grand?
I consider waterboarding a type of torture. no one wants to have the feeling of drowning. they would destroy those tapes because waterboarding creates a sense of fear, panic, and almost death if you were to do it enough times which is the key parts of torture until you get their information. and because the tapes are showing the CIA agents not at the nicest part of the interrogation. they definitely didn't destroy those tapes to safeguard the agents more like safeguard the United States. I still think we shouldn't necessarily have to resort to torture but i'm not the head honcho of these decisions so... yah.
Sarah Lambert
Human Geography (4)
9th grade
I am in agreement that water torture has not officially been defined by our government as a form of torure, however it has been recgnize by John McCain who has undergone water torture and can personally justify that this is a form of torture.Water boarding creates a sensation of "unbearable gag reflex". The word "unbearable" could easily lead us to arguing againt this form of what is unoficially defined by McCain as "torture",but there is a jusifiable answer to the prohibiton v.s. the lealizaion of waterboarding. The prohbition of water boarding would not only decrease gained information from detainees that harbor vital information that could lead to the prevention of destrictive intetionson towards America,"CIA officers told ABC News that 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed lasted the longest under water boarding, two and a half minutes, before beginning to talk."Brian Ross states. Water bording obviously was effective in decoding information from people in accordance with 9/11 that dealt with the lives of thousands of Americans. Along with the proof that waterbording is effective can't we justify that even after exprincing waterboarding John McCain survived to tell his waterboarding expeience,and still has the mental capacity to run for president? Thus, wouldn't you rather save the lives of thousands of innocent Amerians and protect the living Americans, rather than abolish watrboarding that only causes discomfort to a small percentage of highly suspectable, if not proven,threats to our homeland.
I understand that some consider waterboarding to be torture. However, I beleive that using techniques in efforts to gain vital information for the preservtion of our country, even if it causes discomfort to the suspect, should be allowed.
P.S. John McCain's waterboard experience hasn't detered him from running for president?!?
It's obvious that this type of stuff has been going on for a while now. Not just in this war but I'm sure it has happened in others. I personally have no problem with it. I believe because of the majority Christian conservative views and ideologies on what's "morally right" the people frown upon such things. The government knows this and they take these measures to make sure the public doesn't find out. Now obviously they're still human too and are bound to make mistakes so that's why these things leak out.
Alan Lopez
Mitt Romney is a-okay with waterboarding! Just a thought.... if he wasn't scary enough already.
Wow.
That is uhm...interesting to say the least.
I thought that "cruel and unusual punishment" was illegal here in the U.S.
Well, this seems both cruel and unusual.
Shouldn't this have been illegal anyways? Besides the destroying of the tapes.
Kali Elliott
4th Period
9th Grade
what i don't understand is why you would torture someone if you believe that tourture is wrong?? and why did the CIA( i think it was the CIA) say that George Bush has a passion for "extralegal imprisonment and extreme interrogation"? oh and that jane Harman tried to write a letter of protest and she wasn't allowed to say anything! WHAT IS UP WITH THAT??? our society is REALLY wack!! well, at least we know that what they doing(the CIA) was wrong, because as soon as people started finding out what they were doing they erased all their evidence!
Ashely Ambrosio
4th period
Human Geography
Abigail Ham
4th period
9th grade
Well, it seems to me that whatever is going on should just flat out stop. I'm not sure how waterboarding is torture, unless they're made to drag their heads underneath the water, in which case, that would indeed qualify as torture. I think the government needs to get their priorities straight and stop contradicting themselves; it's getting ridiculous.
But of course, the probability of that happening is frustratingly SMALL.
Someone needs to speak up and tell what they were doing, making terror suspects partake in a type of vacational activity and whatnot, and then destroying the documentation. It doesn't make sense, and until they grow a spine and says something, this whole problem is probably going to be blown WAY out of proportion.
Okay. We're dealing with Al Qaeda suspects. Is it not relevant that waterboarding was getting important information out of them? If it works, to any extent, on pulling information from any terrorist suspect, then it's fine by me. But I can't really take the question of why the tapes were destroyed to heart without knowing what I feel to be a more fitting question. Why were the tapes made in the first place?
Annie Henderson
4th period
9th grade
Human Geography AP
sati patel
6th pd.
Although i don't agree with this, I think every country feels it a necessity to cover up any wrong doings in order to keep their citizens thinking they're living under a government that actually represents an ethical moral code. I also think it's hard to enforce something like torture when each branch of government has different views on the matter.
They most definitely didn't destroy those tapes to safeguard the CIA agents it was more like to safeguard the U.S. because it wasn't showing the U.S. at it's most shining hour. I think waterboarding is a type of torture by the way i mean who wants to feel a sense of drowning?
Sarah Lambert
Human Geography AP (4)
9th grade
The government does this all the time. They say one thing and do another. Waterboarding IS torture && if they think torture is wrong...HELLO!?!?!?! It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out. They need to keep the tapes.
Celesta Nave
HuGeo 4
10th
I think the destruction of these tapes and the obvious violation of anti-torture laws by government institutions is a scandal that certainly needs closer investigation. There needs to be closer and stricter investigation to prevent torturing in Guantanamo and other places. In addition CIA practices must be observed. I think its sick that torturing and that kind of cover-up occurs in a civilized country like the US. And certainly no one can doubt that waterboarding IS torture.
I've been hearing about this subject on the radio and have been really confused as well as to why they would destroy these tapes that could potentially help put certain people in jail or whatever, but then again would they destroy the tapes to protect they "torturers" and the "tortured" because of illegal practices, why should they have amnisty to the laws of our country, personally i dont care who they are if they are persucuting people illegally then they are just as at fault as those being tortured.
Landon Henderson
pd. 4
I guess thats our government for you. I never liked the CIA anyway always doing things they think is bad. That is why I don't trust them.
I don't think that the government should torture people that it is appalling that they are willing to destroy evidence that shows we do. I used to want to work for the CIA but I don't want to anymore, not if they are willing to torture people and then lie about it.
Katherine Jeffery
Government-6
I dont see why they had to destroy the tapes if waterboarding isnt considered torture. If it isnt torture then they wouldn't have anything to hide, unless they did more to the suspects than just waterboarding. Thats the only reason I can come up with for the CIA to decide to destroy the tapes.
Anjelica Savedra
9th grade
4th period
I don't think that CIA should destroy waterboading tapes but when citizens have something to do with waterboading they don't do anything about it. People should be able to see the tapes and not be destroyed. People have the rights to see waterboading tapes just like the government.
First, I want to say that I strongly disagree with any kind of torture. Surely there are other ways to get information out of people (no matter who they are). Our government really needs to stop contradicting themselves and settle on one idea or belief. Scandals like this just lead me to wonder what else they are trying to hide from us.
I see the destruction of the tapes as yet another reason that people use to not trust the government, which sadly leads some people to not participate (especially in voting), and yet they sit and complain about things they could easily have an impact on. I also believe that if it is absolutely necessary, then torture can be administered but not the extent of severe physical harm. Also from what I have gathered waterboarding is meant to make the person feel as if they are drowning, now if there was another way to invoke such fear and anxiety as downing produces but not cause any physical harm that would be great, but as of now I have heard of no such thing. Although I do not completely agree with the method of waterboarding, I say if it produces vital, and even perhaps life saving information then I believe that it should be continued only when deemed absolutely necessary.
there is no way waterboarding is a pleasant experience, but it isn't ruled as torture, and its being used on people suspected of terrible crimes. I think, that if there is no doubt someone is guilty of terrorist acts, then it should be used to get information about others. Otherwise it could be used on someone completely innocent like that movie "Rendition".
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