Coded references to New Testament Bible passages about Jesus Christ are inscribed on high-powered rifle sights provided to the United States military by a Michigan company, an ABC News investigation has found.
The sights are used by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and in the training of Iraqi and Afghan soldiers. The maker of the sights, Trijicon, has a $660 million multi-year contract to provide up to 800,000 sights to the Marine Corps, and additional contracts to provide sights to the U.S. Army.
U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious "Crusade" in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents.
One of the citations on the gun sights, 2COR4:6, is an apparent reference to Second Corinthians 4:6 of the New Testament, which reads: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."
Other references include citations from the books of Revelation, Matthew and John dealing with Jesus as "the light of the world." John 8:12, referred to on the gun sights as JN8:12, reads, "Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
Trijicon confirmed to ABCNews.com that it adds the biblical codes to the sights sold to the U.S. military. Tom Munson, director of sales and marketing for Trijicon, which is based in Wixom, Michigan, said the inscriptions "have always been there" and said there was nothing wrong or illegal with adding them. Munson said the issue was being raised by a group that is "not Christian." The company has said the practice began under its founder, Glyn Bindon, a devout Christian from South Africa who was killed in a 2003 plane crash.
'It violates the Constitution'
The company's vision is described on its Web site: "Guided by our values, we endeavor to have our products used wherever precision aiming solutions are required to protect individual freedom."
"We believe that America is great when its people are good," says the Web site. "This goodness has been based on Biblical standards throughout our history, and we will strive to follow those morals."
Spokespeople for the U.S. Army and the Marine Corps both said their services were unaware of the biblical markings. They said officials were discussing what steps, if any, to take in the wake of the ABCNews.com report. It is not known how many Trijicon sights are currently in use by the U.S. military.
The biblical references appear in the same type font and size as the model numbers on the company's Advanced Combat Optical Guides, called the ACOG.
A photo on a Department of Defense Web site shows Iraqi soldiers being trained by U.S. troops with a rifle equipped with the bible-coded sights.
"It's wrong, it violates the Constitution, it violates a number of federal laws," said Michael "Mikey" Weinstein of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, an advocacy group that seeks to preserve the separation of church and state in the military.
'Firearms of Jesus Christ'
"It allows the Mujahedeen, the Taliban, al Qaeda and the insurrectionists and jihadists to claim they're being shot by Jesus rifles," he said.
Weinstein, an attorney and former Air Force officer, said many members of his group who currently serve in the military have complained about the markings on the sights. He also claims they've told him that commanders have referred to weapons with the sights as "spiritually transformed firearm[s] of Jesus Christ."
He said coded biblical inscriptions play into the hands of "those who are calling this a Crusade."
According to a government contracting watchdog group, fedspending.org, Trijicon had more than $100 million in government contracts in fiscal year 2008. The Michigan company won a $33 million Pentagon contract in July, 2009 for a new machine gun optic, according to Defense Industry Daily. The company's earnings from the U.S. military jumped significantly after 2005, when it won a $660 million long-term contract to supply the Marine Corps with sights.
"This is probably the best example of violation of the separation of church and state in this country," said Weinstein. "It's literally pushing fundamentalist Christianity at the point of a gun against the people that we're fighting. We're emboldening an enemy."
*******UPDATE******** Jan. 22
WASHINGTON — A Michigan-based company will stop putting biblical references on weapon scopes and other products made for the U.S. military and is sending the Pentagon kits to remove the references from weaponry already in the hands of American troops.
Trijicon Inc. announced the change in policy Thursday after it was learned through media reports that the company has for decades placed Christian references on rifle sights used by the military. The company defended the practice in a statement Wednesday saying it included the biblical references as "part of our faith and our belief in service to our country."
Today, however, after the Army and the Marine Corps said they would review the practice — which came as a surprise to both — the company opted to change its practice, it said, "in response to concerns raised by the Department of Defense."
Trijicon said it would remove the references from future U.S. military products as well as those already manufactured but not yet shipped and would send 100 modification kits to forces in the field to remove the references already on optical sights in use.
Stephen Bindon, Trijicon's president and chief executive officer, called the decisions "prudent and appropriate," but otherwise gave no reason for the change in policy. The company also did not say whether sights for hunting weapons would continue to carry the references and calls to the company were not immediately returned.
Trijicon employs more than 250 people, producing light-aiming systems for riflescopes and other users. In recent years, it has sold thousands of scopes to the U.S. military, winning a $33 million contract from the Navy last year to provide weapons optics, according to Defense Industry Daily. In 2005, it won a $660 million multiyear contract from the Marines for power scopes.
The biblical references were first reported last week by ABC News, revealing codes on the gun sights that related to biblical citations. For instance, one gun sight included a stamp which said 2COR4:6, what ABC said was "an apparent reference" to Second Corinthians, Chapter 4, Verse 6. Another popular model of scope, the Free Press reported this week, has on it JN8:12, a reference to the Book of John, Chapter 8, Verse 12 in which Jesus says, "Whoever follows me ... will have the light of life."
Military officials said early this week they did not believe the manufacturer stamps which included the references violated the military's ban on proselytizing because soldiers weren't actively using the verses to spread religion. But a Marine Corps spokeswoman said there were concerns about how it could be perceived and there were plans to discuss the issue with Trijicon.
Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
63 comments:
Well personally I think our marines have bigger problems to worry about than inscriptions on their weapons. Leave it to the government to make it into a big deal. I don't think that the troops really care that there's inscription on their rifles, especially when they're getting shot at. If anything I think the religious inscriptions give them a boost of courage and moral and yes while there is probably that one guy overseas that might have a problem with it, I think overall this issue is a waste of time and money. If I were a marine I'd think it would be pretty cool to be fighting with a Jesus weapon
I think that Trijicon should remove the biblical codes on their sights. The codes clearly violate the rule against promoting any certain religion in Iraq or Afghanistan. I agree with Michael Weinstein's statement about the codes giving the radical Muslims another reason to kill U.S soldiers. The U.S government should suspend all other Trijicon contracts until the codes are removed.
I don't think that the company has done anything wrong, and I also think that our American soldiers most likley appreciate the verses being there to lift them up. However, I think that as Christians, if we are allowing the world to think that we want to shoot them "in Jesus' name", we are not exactly following what our Savior actually taught us. We should not be timid in our faith, but at the same time we should not be unwilling to bend when it comes to showing the world love!
I don't understand how this violates any laws. The verses are not even printed on the guns, only the refrences. They are in tiny print and simply a preference of the Trijicon company. They are not forcing anyone to read them or even look at them. In America we have the right to whatever religion suits us and that company is no different.
Exactly whose brilliant idea was it to put coded Bible verses on a brutal weapon used to slaughter fellow humans? Not only does this create a constitutionality question, but it also defies precisely what the Christian manufacturers are attempting to promote. While I will not propose that God is a pacifist (see His various wars throughout the Old Testament for verification), I will propose that He does not condone using religion in a battle against men that had little, if anything, to do with the antagonistic behavior to the United States. The military does not have to purchase these instruments from this specific company, but if the courts rule the scriptures present constitutional and the company produces superior scopes, the decision regarding continued use will be a defining moment in American politics. This will show us much about our current globe's views on church-versus-state, religious tolerance, and the workings of morals in a market economy.
I find this issue to be absolutely ridiculous. This has more to do with political correctness than with the actual separation of church and state in the military. We have prayed to god many times in history (Patton had everyone in the 3rd Army pray for good weather, its in his biography). Plus the quotes all coincide with the use of the scope, seeing the light in the darkness.Also, on the issue of "It allows the Mujahedeen, the Taliban, al Qaeda and the insurrectionists and jihadists to claim they're being shot by Jesus rifles,". There have already been how many holy wars declared on the US by the terrorists that i doubt that jesus scopes will influence them any more than our military occupying Iraq and Afghanistan. What are they going to do? Burn the scopes?
Give our troops the best equipment they can get, nobody using them cares about if there's a bible verse on them, they care about if they work. Can i get an Amen?
Trijicon is making scopes with bible scriptures on them, that is great, God has made it possible for us to kill our nations enemies instead of each other. A private company has made a personal choice that has given the terrorist an example that we are doing this because they don't believe in what we do.
Ok, there is one thing I want to get straight. I have my beliefs as do all of you. As a future soldier, I know that I want anything that will make ME feel like God is watching over me. This is the way it has been for centuries. The battlefield is no place for political correctness.In the end, your bullet (or their's) is going through someone's head or chest. There is no easy way or polite way to do that. If we expect to stay #1 in this world we need to stop whinning about the little things. The polititians who do this have no sense of war and they are soon going to becoming the reason why our guys die. Most of our troops, as well as our country, claim to be christian. If it bothers you that much, then go to the company and buy your own scope.
I have to say that as a devout catholics and an army reservist I feel that the army should discontinue the use of the ACOG sights. This is in clear violation of the armie's policy dictating rligion in the armed forces. I find it highly unethical to mix munitions and religion however that being said I dont think the military will discontinue use of the scopes due to the fact that they generally dont like to pay for equipment twice. Also I dont think that it will have much effect on anything really. Unless ABC took the liberty of sending Al Quaida a press release I highly doubt they will find out. Even if they did what is it going to do? Make them more fanatical thn they already are? Also ACOG sights are issued to only certain troops. Everyone gets trained how to use them but that training is fairly brief.(I had my ACOG sight for about 2 days and used it once)On top of that they are expensive, fragile, and hard to calibrate on the fly. Iron sights are much easier to use and are a feature of all modern assault rifles. So the Iraqi and Afghani troops will probably be lucky to see these "Jesus Sights" once. Hardly long enough to be offended by them. I personally dont think that the military should use the sights, but I really don't see any dangerous backlash as they do.
These numbers and letters are just numbers and letters, if you are religious and want them to stand for bible references then that is your personal preferance. I also think that these same weapons have been used for years and the codes have always been there so what is the difference now? Why are they all of a sudden so bad. The codes are just codes.
Aside from the oddity and irony of it, I don't really see any problem, especially not legal, with encoding bible verses in weaponry. From what I understand, Trijicon is a privately owned company, and the question of church and state shouldn't even come into play. Were the military behind this, sure, play that card, but if this corporation wants to religiously justify and encourage killing, or remind soldiers of Who is protecting them, then I believe that is their full legal right. It does, however, seem like an odd and easily misconstrued idea. In particular I'm bothered by the comment "firearms of Jesus", words which I feel do not belong together, and is reason enough not to include such citations if that's the resulting view.
I don't see how a coded scripture is such a big deal, especially if the military didn't know about them before the contracts were made. I don't see the difference in getting shot with a plain rifle or one with writing on it. If the military hasn't forced or even pushed religion on the "enemy" at this point then how on earth does using a certain gun change that fact? Moreover its the sight that's coded not the actual gun. Therefore, no, no one can say they're being shot with a Jesus rifle. The sight is not firing the bullet. Once again, in reference to the Constitutional violation, this is a private company not the military itself. The American military does not have religion forced upon its members nor does it force religion upon others. Just because the makers of the scope decided to put something Christian affiliated on it doesn't mean that every user of said scope is a "religions crusader" out to use violence to make others conform to their beliefs.
Really? Who cares? If the military wants to be ignorant with something as insignificant as having bible verses on their "scopes" then just let them be. It's like someone having a tattoo on their body, if it says something stupid who cares? Let them do what they want to do. Let the military purchase the weapons they want. If people are honestly getting offended by this then they simply lack maturity. We know why we are out there in the first place,(well most of us do)so if people want to mix the act of defending a country with religious persecution then please...grow up.
This shouldn't even be an arguement. The fact that people in our own country are getting offended by the fact that they have certain bible verses on their rifles is stupid. This is the Land of the free and home of the brave, our Country was founded on Christianity you can try and take it out of our politics but you can't. Everyone has a title to there own opinion its in the first amendment. One classic explain is in the movie "Saving Private Ryan", where the sniper in that movie says a prayer and kisses his cross before he kills his enemy. If we were fighting anyone else in the world besides Islamic extremists this wouldn't be a problem. Case Closed!
Ok i think everyone needs to calm down about the "Jesus Gun".
An ACOG sight is not a gun, its a scope, and you attach it to the scope rail on the top of your rifle. The scope is not killing anyone. It might make sighting a target easier, but that's it, if you want to kill someone with an ACOG, i would suggest using a rock instead, probably harder.
Personally, I don't think these coded references to Bible scriptures should be such a big deal. Just because they are inscribed on the rifle, does not turn it into a "firearm of Jesus." However, since U.S. military rules strictly prohibit anything that may seem to promote a certain religion in Afghanistan or Iraq, Trijicon should respect that by not supplying these coded weapons to the U.S. military. Although Trijicon has the right to inscribe Biblical references, they should reserve those weapons for ordinary individuals. The Constitution clearly defines the division between religion and state, and Trijicon's weapons have overstepped that separation. Admittedly, Trijicon does have honorable intentions. Their vision is described as,"Guided by our values, we endeavor to have our products used wherever precision aiming solutions are required to protect individual freedom." However, Trijicon needs to realize that despite their respectable objectives, they are essentially violating the Constitution.
The culture in the United States Armed Forces is intolerant to everyone except right-wing conservatives and straight white males. The policies towards gays, women, and all other fringe groups illustrate this clearly. This is just another ecample of how the army has such a narrow view of the world, ie "with us or against us" mentality, and the view that everyone has to fit the same mold (Christian). Plenty of American soldiers do not believe in Christianity.
Frankly, as a Christian, I would absolutely refuse to fight with a gun that was inscribed with bible verses; that is incredibly tacky and offensive and supports the widespread view that 'Jesus loves America and would advocate our killing whoever we want to.'
At the very least, the bible verse should be an option that the soliders can have inscribed on their weapon if they so choose, although I can't imagine why anyone would.
The simple answer to avoid this ridiculous conflict is to take the inscriptions off of the scopes. However, we, being a Christian nation, take it upon ourselves to prove our faith to the world. Christians, since the beginning, have always fought to be the religion. We were the ones who made a "Holy War" an option. But, I can understand Trijicon's reasoning behind the inscriptions, I'd sure like a little reminder that my forgiving God's around when I'm killing people.
I'm going to come at this from the side of the suplier. All of the regulations and rules dictating the separation of the Services and Religion are there to prevent internal conflict withing the soldiers them-selfs. Because if you can't cooperate with your fellow marines how are you supposed to fight a war. It's there simply to "level the playing ground" for the operators.
So the fact that a civilian contracting corp. is putting Biblical verses on there products is a pointless argument. It was there choice to put them on and since they don't suply to just the Miltary, they will suply there products to anyone willing and able to buy there products. The fact that they produce a military quality product has nothing to do with the men and women in Washington writing the checks that pay for the product. The soldiers and officers in the field simply use what they are given. As the article said, many servicemen and women didn't even realize the verses were there until a big deal was made of the whole thing. So i can't see why everyone is makeing a big fuss about this. If they're worried about religious tension because the scopes have bible verses on them start producing scope with verses from the Koran or the Book of Morman. that'll settle aught to help straighten things out.
The U.S. military decided to make an agreement with Trijicon. Trijicon is a private company, it can put any type of marking on its product. If you are looking for someone to blame, blame the military. If the military chose Trijicon, they must be one of the best sight makers. At $660,000,000 for only 800,000 sights, they must be good. I don't think having the references on the scopes make them inferior in any way, so that's not a problem. They are being used as sights, not bibles, and since the military chose them, they must prefer them. It's not like you see scripture when you aim. I don't see massive church and state muddle, although for the U.S. military to completely overlook the inscriptions on the sights does seem flapdoodle.
Men in our Armed forces are dying and here we are worrying about Bible verses and political correctness. All Americans are garanteed religious freedom and this applies to the privately owned company who supplied these 'Jesus Rifles'. So how does that violate and seperation of church laws? It doesn't. Our nation was founded on Christian principles and as much as people try to take that aspect out of politics it's not going to happen.
Seriously? This issue would have never come to light if someone hadn't stuck their nose where it shouldn't have been in the first place. They don't want anyone to think the Iraqi war is a religious crusade? Well obviously the correct way to do that is to slap this all over the media so that anyone with a television, newspaper, or radio will know. But, seeing as the "issue" has come to light, I hope that the company doesn't cease with the bible references printed on their scopes. It would be a violation of their right to free speech and freedom of religion. The military can choose whether or not to use them. I highly doubt that a company so grounded in moral and Christian values will give in and remove the references just for the sake of maintaining their agreement with the military. However, money can be a huge motivator as we all know, and if this proves to be true yet again, I will be very disappointed.
I believe that the Trijicon should get other guns that do not have biblical codes on their sights. The codes are creating more hostility with the Muslims against the Americans. The Iraqi and Afghan soldiers do not have Christian beliefs and to them as they said in the article that they are being shot at with "Jesus guns". This is causing more harm than it is good. Being a Christian myself I would want something of God to have to know that he is with me, but I would not have it on a gun that I am using against another human being.
Although I understand where Weinstein is coming from, I see no problem with it. They didn't put actual scriptures from the bible on the weapons, just references. This way you can look at the verse if you would like or you can ignore it. The choice is up to you. But, the soldiers shouldn't care about what their weapons have on them in tiny print, they should care about what they are doing with those weapons.
I do agree that many people overreact to religious expressions in the USA. Some take an open expression of religion as oppression to their own reilgion. I dont think tha company meant any harm but that doesnt change the negative image this gives america on a global scale. It makes it look like a religious war, which it practicaly was already up to this point. Not to mention that if this stunt doesnt break the proselytizing rule it comes dangerously close. All in all it would seem best for everyone if they stopped producing weapon accessories with bible passages on them.
Wow. Trijicon has made a mess of things. The "war on terror" is controversial enough without adding evidence to it being just another Relious War. This clearly violates separation of church and state and the inscriptions are unecessary. But this is an issue of principle and its quite aggravating to see people nitpick about it and completely miss the bigger picture. If all the scopes were replaced, it would cost more money that we don't actually have and we would waste all those scopes that worked perfectly fine to begin with. I think that would be a bigger transgression than letting some of our nation's culture seep into the military.
I understand that it may cause more problems but this is being blown way out of porportion.They are already risking their lives, they dont nee all this.
O heck yeah, when i first saw the title of this topic, i couldnt help but to think of the sniper in "Saving Private Ryan". Completely bad awesomeness. This country was founded under Christian principles, which turned out to work quite well since we are a major world power now. Sure the seperation of church and state issue so that nobody gets offended. Still,, Everyones seemed to have been against Christianity in this country for the past few years, any time somebody does something, they get put down. I've failed to have heard about anything against other religions... maby they're afraid of the truth :D Love you guys!
Nick out
I think that the inscriptions on the ACOG scopes really do not matter to the men and women who are using them to defend our country; a country that was built on the foundations of Christianity! Some of them might even be encouraged by these "spiritually transformed firearms". So what if some people are offended by it? It's impossible to satisfy everyone. I say, let them go make their own scopes and write whatever they want on it if they are so very agitated about the subject.
I don't feel that trijicon has done anything wrong by inscribing bible refrences on its scopes. First of all it's the militaries fault for not noticing that they were on there. The company said that they had them on there since there founder died in 2003, and the deal was made in 2005. If you're going to invest a substantial amount of money into something you should probably do more research on it. second thing is that the refrences aren't being forced onto anybody, it's only a reference not the whole verse. If anyone wants to look up what it means that's up to them.
Honestly, i doubt the mariens have a preference in a scope that has codes on it or not. as long as it works properly and get the job done, codes or no codes doesnt make a difference. Also, the company said that these codes have been there for awhile now so whats the deal with the big fuss NOW. If they cared about the codes THAT much then this "argument" should have been brought up way long ago or when they were deciding whether or not to sign another contract with the company. This, to me, is a perfect example of "making a mountain out of mole-hill". GET OVER IT!!!
I don't feel that trijicon has done anything wrong by inscribing bible refrences on its scopes. First of all it's the militaries fault for not noticing that they were on there. The company said that they had them on there since there founder died in 2003, and the deal was made in 2005. If you're going to invest a substantial amount of money into something you should probably do more research on it. second thing is that the refrences aren't being forced onto anybody, it's only a reference not the whole verse. If anyone wants to look up what it means that's up to them.
How is this issue any different from the dollar bill? We have the religious statement "In God We Trust" written on the back of all of our dollar bills and that hasn't seemed to cause any problems at all. If Christian soldiers want to use the verses to help them feel more protected while fighting, then great. If not, then they can just look at the symbols as random letters and numbers with no meaning. I believe this issue has been completely blown out of proportion and there are numerous other (and definitely more important) things the US needs to concentrate on.
I am honestly astounded by the sheer ludicrousness of this whole situation. Is there honestly time being spent on debating the moral and constitutional merit of christian encoded firearms? And are we really fretting over what the enemy will think of us because of them? It seems this time that America's vendetta for political correctness has out-shined it's concerns about the big picture. For instance, the men and women who are carrying those firearms, their families that can be grateful that those firearms can be used to keep their loved one alive, or the country that depends on those very men and women to ensure that we even have a right to debate over Christian weaponry.
I don't even think even the most anti-christian zealot would object to using any firearm, biblically encoded or even encrusted with crosses, if it meant protecting himself and his fellow comrades.
The conterverse is a clear misunderstood reference.Plain and simple numbers and words inscripted on military weapons. If someone who had no clue what the inscriptions meant then there wouldn't be a conterversy. So I think its an unneccessary problem the government should worry about.
Well I think that Trijicon shouldnt have to remove the biblical codes from their sights. Its really not doing any harm to anyone. Trijicon said that they have been putting the biblical codes on the sights for a while now so if it took them that long to complain about it then it shouldnt be a problem now. The marines and the army are capable of buying from other companies so Trijicon should be able to do whatever they want with their own product.
I think this whole thing is ridiculous and being made into far too big a deal. I don't understand why they are trying to limit this company's freedom of speech and freedom of religion. I'm sure that the soldiers don't really care all that much since they have bigger things going on around them, and if they do they can just look at it as any another code. I don't think Trijicon should remove the bible verses because they are a private company and it is their choice. And if the military doesn't want bible verses on their scopes, they can do business with someone else and that would be their choice.
Really, i dont see anything wrong with this, and really dont think it is breaking any laws. It would be breaking the laws if they were forcing them to view them and live them, but they arent. I think its a good idea, and if the Military guys dont like it then maybe they should get someone else to make their weapons.
The fact that the letters and numbers on a scope is a major media event is ridiculous. They're letters and number. If you'd like to attach a belief to it, that's your business, not America's. By law (or agreement or something) we must separate church and state and this gives the Taliban and what not to claim they're being shot by "Jesus rifles". Which one of those categories is really going to be that close to the scope and/or rifle? BTW government, this means they probably wouldn't know if you hadn't made such a huge deal about it. Also I'd like to point out that the codes are not on the weapons but rather on an optional attachment. If the government finds this to be a problem... switch brands and please stop wasting our air time. Really if this is the government's biggest problem we've got no reason to be overseas.
Although I myself am Christian, I have to say that that Trijicon's decision to remove the bible inscriptions from the rifle sights did seem "prudent and appropriate". While the bible verses may inspire the soldiers with hope and motivation to continue fighting for freedom, individually owned objects such as a cross or a religious medal would serve the same purpose. The US military must attempt to avoid feeding the belief that this is a religious crusade and by removing the verses they remove this ideology.
While I can understand the other side of the story, I don't think the company was in the wrong. The inscription doesn't affect the use or operation of the weapon, and just by displaying it doesn't make it a "Jesus rifle". Some of our soldiers might even find inspiration in the verse, and if it can give them something more to fight for than I don't think it's hurting anyone. Bottom line: if if inspires the soldiers, great. If not, I think our army and government have bigger things to focus on at the present time.
I understand that we have religious freedom in this country but I also understand that people don't want to use guns with biblical references on them. I think if you want to use them then use them. If not, then get another one. I don't think making a huge commotion about it is necessary. We have a war to worry about. Stop complaining about guns and get the job done.
However, I do think it's strange that there are references about Jesus's love on a tool you use to kill someone with.
This argument is ridiculous... Really? Who cares about the inscription on th ACOG scopes. For non-Christians like myself we see the inscription and think oh its just another set of numbers and letters. or it should be that way at least. If the military or whoever has a problem they should pay off Trijicon out of their multi-year contract instead of trying to make Trijicon change something they have been doing since their original founder started it.
I think this is completely ridiculous and ignorant. Using weapons with bible verses on them to kill humans just seems wrong to me. Trijicon should remove the codes immediately.
While we are here debating whether it is right or wrong to have religious inscriptions on military weapons, soldiers are actually out there risking their lives. I don't agree that putting a bible verse on something that is used to kill people is right, but I also feel the company should be entitled to do as it wants. If people happen to be offended by it, then they should realize both sides are entitled to express their opinions. Another thing to take into account is that not all American soldiers are even Christian. Why not turn to inspirational quotes instead that cause less controversy and motivate soldiers just as much?
While yes they are a private company, and should have every right to put what ever they want on their scopes, the are supplying the U.S. military. So by putting a bible verse on the scopes used by the military it clearly becomes a violation of the separation of church and state.
Furthermore, I was always told that Jesus taught about loving your neighbor, and what about the commandment thou shall not murder. How is something that aids in killing Christian?
In my opinion America has tried extremely hard to make this war that we are in a "non religious war" and the inscriptions on the scopes have set us back. Our opponents now see that this seems like a crusade to rid the world of the musilms. Every time America takes three steps forward we take two steps back. This war is being fought by all americans not just the armed soldiers overseas but its also being fought by factory workers making scopes with christian religious inscriptions,
In my opinion america has tried extremely hard to make this war a non religious war and now that this company has put biblical inscriptions it makes america seem like this war is actually a crusade to rid the world of the muslims. this war is not only being fought by the armed forces overseas its also being fought by all americans at home including the factory putting the inscriptions on the weapons used to kill our opponents. it seems like every time america takes three steps forward we take two steps back.
I personally think that this entire discussion and debate of whether weapons should continue to have coded Biblical versus on their weapons is completely pointless. It is taking away time for more important issues. The codes on the weapons do not have to mean something biblical if you do not want them to. They can be just numbers and letters, however, since the United States military rules specifically prohibit anything that promotes religion in Afghanistan and Iraq, Trijicon should remove these biblical codes from their future weapons. The U.S. military should be especially careful in buying weapons with inscriptions and giving them to soldiers in Afghanistan and in Iraq because of the radical Muslims that will believe that the United States is launching another crusade. If Trijicon wants to sell these weapons to private individuals, then they should, but selling them to the U.S. military is breaking the rules and regulations that have been set. Trijicon has good intentions at hand, but they need to know their boundaries. The Constitution of the United States clearly shows the separation of state and religion, and Trijicon is clearly violating the Constitution by providing the military with weapons containing biblical codes.
I believe that the soldiers should be given the chance to put a bible verse or piece of religious text on their scope if they are so inclined and it makes them feel better, but I don't think scopes should be mass produced with specific bible verses, because everyone using the scope may not agree with the religion that the verses are promoting. There is already enough controversy made by people who do not understand the war who think that it is a crusade, and these verses are just giving them fodder.
This is silly. People are making this into a big deal for no reason. Its just another excuse for the people in our society to bicker abount something.
Though I don't agree with putting biblical references on instruments that help put a bullet in another human being, I don't really see what the big deal is. The military wasn't aware of the references when it made the contract (because they were so small anyway), so it's not like they were intentionally looking to force Christianity on anyone. I also don't see how it's "emboldening the enemy" either. For Al Qaeda, this has been a religious war from the beginning, and it seems like no matter what the United States says or does to deny that, Al Qaeda will always see it as such. I don't think a few letters on a few gun sights is going to change that relationship. In my opinion, this is just a "political correctness"/PR mistake on the military's part, not a violation of the constitution, not an attack on Christianity, and not a treatise on the controversy of separation of church and state.
The most disheartening factor, in my opinion, of this whole issue is the fact that it is causing individuals on both sides of the war to question if they are being destroyed by weapons sent from Jesus. This obviously has led to great turmoil in the opinions of Americans, and could inspire Muslim extremists to further acts of terrorism against this nation using "Christian" weapons. However, this company does have the right to inscribe whatever they wish on their manufactured product. Whether the military should purchase this company's products is another matter entirely, and not the one at question in this situation.
I really don't see how this is offensive to our troops. These weapons are used to protect them, and the verses are asking God for the protection. And it is true that our nation has been based on Biblical standards, so using Bible verses as protection is just part of our history. I feel like this whole ordeal is just another way of trying to push God out of any part of our country.
Honestly, if it is this big of a deal then i believe that the Trijicon should just remove the codes. The codes clearly promote a certain religion, and that is against the rule that has been set. I also agree about the statement that this is just giving radical Muslims another reason to hate us. This really shouldn't be such a big deal, just remove the codes.
I feel like the bible verses on the weapons isnt breaking the law or offensive to anyone. Its not even the actual verse just a little bit of encouragement that might remind a U.S. soldier what they are fighting for. Here we have freedom of religion and so i dont believe were forcing a religion on anyone. I feel like this company is only trying to do their part in supporting our soldiers. Killing people is not right and the bible does teach us that, but maybe if we put God into the war he can help us out of it.
I don't think putting a bible scripture should be such a a huge debate. Its not about killing people in the name of the lord, its just keeping Godly reminders close to you when you are in a situation such as these men. We have not gotten angry at football players for putting scriptures on their war paint before they go out on the field to hit the opposing team's players, we should not blow this out of proportion.
the codes do have a violation of the rule within Iraq and Afghanistan where religion should not be promoted. it is a bit strange though, how a country where religion is not 'welcome,' should have these type of codes on them, isn't it? also, you can't really cliam that Jesus is the one scoping someone, because He is not the one holding the gun, it's the soldier. i do believe that Trijicon, should take the codes off.
Well i believe that this inscriptures on these guns was not printed intentionally to offend anybody but us as a society tend to take things different ways, some people are very upset and some could care less, i do believe that it is rather contradictory that codes for bible verses are on a weapon that we kill people with daily, but in the long run theres no possible way to please eeverybody so either way someone is offended
I find this amusing. I dont know whether to think trijicon did this to boost moral or if for personal satisfaction, or even to indeed make america's enemies think we are waging a "holy war" on them. I do however know that this infringes on individual rights, there wouldnt be a problem if each individual marine could choose what's on their scope, or if trijicon would simply pull their heads out of their backsides and took the dang inscrptions off. If i were a marine this would really make me angry, i don't want christians pushing their religious beliefs onto my property, and i imagine some marines feel the same way, chances are that not every marine is a christian, though i imagine they make a large portion of the population. But think if you were hindu, muslim, atheist, or any other religion, you'd be pretty P.O.'ed if you had to sling around a "jesus gun", the fact of the matter is the government pays trijicon to make scopes to kill people, not to express their religion. I think trijicon should be sued, sued hard. And i very strongly disagree with a few of the previous comments, the company has done something wrong, and putting religious inscriptions on weapons of war is not "showing the world love!" or "give them a boost of courage" its criminal
Honestly this has got the be the greatest thing next to sliced bread! I mean you get to kill a person with this and recite a biblical verse at the same time to help lessen the fact that you just wounded or killed someone. Honestly I think this is Genius! Who cares if its against the Constitution our troops should be able to use whatever they want and if this helps them out in some type of way I'm all for it. Really were already spending so much money for this Stimulus plan why not just spend a few more million bucks to make a country that doesn't like us at least get to see how God fearing we really are. Im all for this these scopes are amazing and we get to have God in our sights now at all times even when looking at someone in the eyes of death.
In all honesty, the scopes that were produced ARE produced for a reason and purchased for that same reason, they're the best that the military can buy and hey if they want to be as ignorant as tey want and put a scripture on the side, let them. As D'Cruz said if you're fighting for your countries rights and you want to feel safe why not tack on tat little extra scripture to let you know that god is looking over you. I mean in teh sense that he's guiding your bullets to kill those that dont have your beliefs is wrong, yes. Seeing both sides of the argument made me come to a conclusion that those who wish to believe taht god is guiding their bullets can do so and be ignorant as they do so, and those who see it as a political debate between the seperation of religion and state can also have their opinion as well.
Well I do believe this has been taken a little out of proportion, making the good argument that they could just bee letters and numbers, but on the other hand I find this wrong. Even though we are a "Christian Nation" we are also the "Melting Pot", filled with different cultures and beliefs. While some find the scripture inspiring, others are gravely offended by it so I would just take it off and meet in the middle. I can understand the argument that the Christian soldiers give, making them feel closer to God, but do you really need a handful of letters and numbers engraved on the gun you use to kill peoople with to do so?
Post a Comment